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Thread: Ted Templeman?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unchainedguitars View Post
    1984 still felt like the old tone to me, though it's not my favorite (WACF, FW are my tops, tonewise).
    But 1984 had that ratty jet-plane brown, the saturation & the articulation (listen to "Girl Gone bad.")
    You could hear Ed's fingers, the nuances...
    Those six records sounded like a blazing, hot amp combined with the right player.

    When we got to 5150 and Balance, it sounded all very effected to me.
    It didn't have that ratty/rawness anymore, it didn't sound organic and natural.
    I guess Ed's guitars (never liked those EBMM guitars for sound), his chain, amps, all made a difference.
    I guess this was his more "adult" tone.

    For me, while you can still hear it's Eddie, the tone became more stable and generic.

    Not exactly sure what you mean by "adult" but I would explain it as Ed going after what HE wanted, as opposed to what Ted wanted, or, whatever negotiated agreement was worked out between Ted and Ed, probably with Don in the middle over the previous couple of albums. I've read that the majority of the recording for 1984 was done by Ed and Don in the middle of the night in order to evade Templeman's presence and authority.

    Much of the difference is attributable to the recording being done at 5150 as opposed to Sunset (different board/onboard preamps). But also, as you reference, the rig started to change to a certain extent in the general time period, and leading up to 1984. Ed had become interested in using Eventide harmonizers leading up to this time, began more often retiring the Echoplexes for Roland digital delays and began implementing Roland choruses as well. Also, he began retreating from the use of the staple flanger and phaser pedals. 5150 had Urei 1776s from its beginning, but of course, how they were used is anyone's guess, besides Ed, Don and Ted.
    Last edited by multo74; January 22nd, 2013 at 07:29 PM.
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

  2. #12
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    People are chasing phantoms of their imagination trying to get the Brown Sound. Between the first album to Fair Warning, the tone doesn't sound the same on any of them to my ear (Diver Down and 1984 are similar, though). So which version of the Brown Sound are you trying to get?

    I don't think it takes ridiculous loads of vintage gear and complex, esoteric setups to get there. You want a little higher gain, but not so much it sounds mushy. You want notes to sing without being fizzy or shrill. You want the speaker to kick, not just fuzz out. I really think most of this can be accomplished with an overdrive pedal and the tone knobs on the front of your amp.

    Another thing is, if I understand right, British amps and older American amps (Fender, Music Man) use EL34/6CA7 power tubes, and Mesa-Boogie, Soldano and probably 5150 amps use 6550. The EL34/6CA7 give a softer sine wave and the 6550 is more square and has that nu-metal/Joe Satriani sound.

    Of course you need an engineer to capture it with a good mic at the right distance, then have the reverb/delay panned to the opposite speaker.

    Playing a good song helps the guitar sound better, too.

    I don't really care for the VHI tone in hindsight. Sounds kinda solid state and brittle, and too fizzy. VHII hits the spot. Fair Warning, too, but there are three or four guitars going at the same time on that one, all sounding a little different.

    Some of the best tones are really AC/DC's High Voltage and, although the music isn't so great, Blow Up Your Video.

  3. #13
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    Jose Arredondo.

    All part of the myth, the lore, the mystery, the quest, the chase... lol

    Ed claimed he modded his amps, then claimed he made that up to drum up business for the guy, then claimed the aforementioned "mod" was merely some transistor work.

    The plexi either had a Master Vol installed or didn't , or did then had it removed eventually.

    Who knows?

    I don't but my hunch is that Arrendondo did not mod Ed's head for increased gain.

    I know every Metal band from the 80's guitarist wound up taking their 100 watt Marshalls to the guy to have them modded, so, Ed's endorsement was effective, regardless of the whatever actually happened. One thing that appears unchallenged is that Arrendondo was instrumental in influencing Ed as far as the somewhat complicated and convoluted concepts that he adopted in setting up his live rig chain (variacs, dummy loads, amp slaving, etc)

    But overall, again, listen to any bootleg from 76-78. You won't hear the sound on VH-1 because he didn't have that sound live.

    The foundation of the tone is the head. The essence of much of it was production.
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
    People are chasing phantoms of their imagination trying to get the Brown Sound. Between the first album to Fair Warning, the tone doesn't sound the same on any of them to my ear (Diver Down and 1984 are similar, though). So which version of the Brown Sound are you trying to get?

    I don't think it takes ridiculous loads of vintage gear and complex, esoteric setups to get there. You want a little higher gain, but not so much it sounds mushy. You want notes to sing without being fizzy or shrill. You want the speaker to kick, not just fuzz out. I really think most of this can be accomplished with an overdrive pedal and the tone knobs on the front of your amp.

    Another thing is, if I understand right, British amps and older American amps (Fender, Music Man) use EL34/6CA7 power tubes, and Mesa-Boogie, Soldano and probably 5150 amps use 6550. The EL34/6CA7 give a softer sine wave and the 6550 is more square and has that nu-metal/Joe Satriani sound.

    Of course you need an engineer to capture it with a good mic at the right distance, then have the reverb/delay panned to the opposite speaker.

    Playing a good song helps the guitar sound better, too.

    I don't really care for the VHI tone in hindsight. Sounds kinda solid state and brittle, and too fizzy. VHII hits the spot. Fair Warning, too, but there are three or four guitars going at the same time on that one, all sounding a little different.

    Some of the best tones are really AC/DC's High Voltage and, although the music isn't so great, Blow Up Your Video.
    As far as I'm concerned, and I myself am not trying to get any of Ed's tones, this thread was about Ted Templeman, because the questions I have about the brown sound are related to the recording process. My overall point is kinda that, the production has as much- if not even more- to do with what we regard of as the Brown Sound, and to whatever extent it's similar in the first 6 albums, as which power tubes were used in the amps, or how Seymour Duncan wound the wires on the pickups that might have been used versus how Larry Dimarzio wound them, versus how Ed wound them himself or if the Destroyer has Maxon/Ibanez Super 70's installed or if that guitar actually was made of Kona wood like Ed claimed (seems probably it wasn't actually,) and so on and so forth.

    I agree with you about ac/dc having some all time great guitar tones, but I do disagree with you that a sound as brilliant as what you hear (including the small differences/changes over the course of the first several albums) in early VH is attainable with a distortion pedal. ac/dc used cranked vintage Marshalls by the way, without distortion pedals.
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by multo74 View Post
    this thread was about Ted Templeman, because the questions I have about the brown sound are related to the recording process.
    Okay. No, no one knows of such an interview with Ted Templeman.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
    Okay. No, no one knows of such an interview with Ted Templeman.
    and Ted, if you're out there, I'd love to interview you!

    If such a book were written, would not every tone-chasing VH nut purchase it?
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by multo74 View Post
    ac/dc used cranked vintage Marshalls by the way, without distortion pedals.
    Yes, I know. I didn't say AC/DC used a pedal. But if you want the Ed sound (or the hypothetical person you're talking about does), which is basically a distorted tube amp with a little more hair on it, hair = overdrive. And an overdrive isn't a distortion.

  8. #18
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    There is definitely a connection in tone, threaded throughout the first six records.
    And i do believe Ted & Donn played a role in that connection.
    You could argue VHI and II feature different tones, which is somewhat true, yet it's still
    that BROWN, that browness.
    And that sound lingers straight through 1984, then it abruptly changes (and is never heard again).

    I've lived with those six records since i was nine (Well the first three, when i was nine).
    I recognize that tone like the back of my hand.
    It goes beyond a semi-hot head and some overdrive pedals for color.
    It's a very unique, hot-rodded (yet, organic, natural) sound.

    I want to know how they did it, why it dissapeared.

    AC/DC had a much more basic, dry sound.
    It was a great, unpretentious, ballsy tone, most attributed to the contrast of Malcom's clean
    Gretsch and Angus' more saturated SG.
    It was two separate tones, but complimentary tones, forming one big rock sound.

    Edward was more futuristic.
    His tone was unlike the typical late 70's sounds you expected.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
    Yes, I know. I didn't say AC/DC used a pedal. But if you want the Ed sound (or the hypothetical person you're talking about does), which is basically a distorted tube amp with a little more hair on it, hair = overdrive. And an overdrive isn't a distortion.
    Ice Cream Man- I'm not really disagreeing with what youre saying, I just think perhaps you sorta missed the point I was trying to make with this thread. It wasn't meant to be another addition the millions of pre-existing threads that are about doing some basic emulation of Ed's sound using gear we can afford that is accessible to us.

    It was about an appreciation and interest in the specific things that were done in the studio in the recording process specifically, to make his early sound what it is on record precisely-- the more under-reported, under appreciated on or less speculated on stuff-- the final enhancements that gave it the true, inimitable brown sound character. How to sort of fudge the sound for utilitarian purposes with distortion or overdrive pedals is really off the topic and belies the essence of the point.
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by unchainedguitars View Post
    There is definitely a connection in tone, threaded throughout the first six records.
    And i do believe Ted & Donn played a role in that connection.
    You could argue VHI and II feature different tones, which is somewhat true, yet it's still
    that BROWN, that browness.
    And that sound lingers straight through 1984, then it abruptly changes (and is never heard again).

    I've lived with those six records since i was nine (Well the first three, when i was nine).
    I recognize that tone like the back of my hand.
    It goes beyond a semi-hot head and some overdrive pedals for color.
    It's a very unique, hot-rodded (yet, organic, natural) sound.

    I want to know how they did it, why it dissapeared.
    Unchained- we're definitely on the same page here as far as how we view what we think we know THE Brown Sound to be.
    "we sound like a goddamn rock band!"

    --David Lee Roth, Stockholm, Sweden, 1984

 

 

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