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Ronnie Montrose considered David Lee Roth as a replacement for Sammy Hagar in 1975 - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLR 1973 View Post
    And sticking to the hard facts involving the links in the 1970's between Van Halen and Montrose and between David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar.

    It is a fact that in the 1970's, covers band, Van Halen, played 'Dancin' Feet' by Montrose at the yard parties in Pasadena.

    More facts on the tumultuous year of 1975:

    Warner Brothers Presents... Montrose! is the third album by the band Montrose. It was released on the Warner Bros label in September 1975.

    It is the first Montrose album released after the departure of singer Sammy Hagar, the first Montrose album not produced by Ted Templeman, and the first Montrose album to feature a keyboardist as a full member of the band. Bob James, an unknown vocalist and songwriter from the South Bay area of Los Angeles who had been singing in a Montrose covers band, was chosen as Hagar's successor in early 1975. Another newcomer from Los Angeles, Jim Alcivar, joined the band on keyboards. At this juncture Ronnie Montrose parted ways with Ted Templeman and chose to self-produce the album.

    The second half of the disc continues to explore diverse sonic territory with rockers "Dancin' Feet" (performed at the time as a cover song by Van Halen)

    Band:

    Bob James: Lead Vocals
    Ronnie Montrose: Guitar
    Jim Alcivar: Keyboards
    Alan Fitzgerald: Bass
    Denny Carmassi: Drums


    Could easily have been:

    David Roth: Lead Vocals
    Ronnie Montrose: Guitar
    Jim Alcivar: Keyboards
    Alan Fitzgerald: Bass
    Denny Carmassi: Drums

    Once again, Pinky Warmouth is ignored. The injustice!
    It can't be "Van Halen" without Roth, any more than it can be "Van Halen" without Eddie.


  2. #22
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    I'm not saying Roth would suck fronting Montrose (actually, i'd bet he would kick ass), but i just can't see Ronnie
    giving him the gig.

    Prime era Roth (78-81), was a force to be reckoned with.
    His power was in the presentation of the song, the colors he could add, the vibe.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DLR 1973 View Post
    HARD FACTS AGAIN

    This time in the words of the late Ronnie Montrose himself in Zlozower’s book, titled ‘Eddie Van Halen.

    “The first tour I did with Van Halen, the bill was Journey, Ronnie Montrose, and Van Halen was opening. I was doing my instrumental music on that tour.....
    Quote Originally Posted by unchainedguitars View Post
    I'm not saying Roth would suck fronting Montrose (actually, i'd bet he would kick ass), but i just can't see Ronnie giving him the gig.

    Prime era Roth (78-81), was a force to be reckoned with.
    His power was in the presentation of the song, the colors he could add, the vibe.

    Well lets look at what was going on in Montrose in the mid to late 1970's.

    After the departure of vocalist Bob James following the band's performance at Winterland on December 31, 1976, Montrose imploded as a group and Ronnie Montrose resurfaced a year later with the solo instrumental album Open Fire, released in January 1978. During this period the guitarist also worked with jazz-fusion drummer Tony Williams.

    This is what Ronnie played as he toured solo with Journey and Van Halen.

    In 1979, along with Montrose holdovers Jim Alcivar and Alan Fitzgerald, drummer Skip Gillette, and Scottish vocalist Davey Pattison, Ronnie Montrose formed a new group in the progressive hard rock mould named Gamma. The band's debut, Gamma 1 was released in 1979.

    So by the time he toured with Van Halen in 1978, Ronnie was heading in a different direction than his late 1974-1976 period.

    Back in late '74 Ronnie was still committed to Montrose and was desperately trying to find a replacement to Sammy Hagar. He looked at many singers, including those from cover bands in the Los Angeles area.

    Van Halen just happened to be one cover band in that area, at that time, that everyone was talking about.

    It is more difficult to argue that Ronnie Montrose did not consider David Roth at the time.


    This nearly happened. I don't know why Dave has never spoken about it. Maybe he never realized how close it was, or depending on the version of the story that I've heard, he may have never realized that he was even a serious contender.



    Given Dave's relentless promotion of Van Halen, since their name change in 1974, to his last concerts with them in 1984, I can't see him saying anything at that time that would damage the Van Halen 'brand'; certainly not that he was considering leaving Van Halen and jumping on board an already successful band in early 1975. And as soon as Sammy joined Van Halen in 1985, if Dave had said anything from that point on, about him being considered by Ronnie, then in many people's eyes that would have also confirmed a similarity of styles between Montrose and Van Halen, and also suggested and again confirmed a potential suitability of Sammy to Van Halen; and that is just never going to happen from the mouth of David Lee Roth.

    In fact, given Van Halen's appreciation of Montrose, and the influence on the band, I am amazed that in 1985, it took a car mechanic to suggest it to Eddie, before they even considered Sammy as a suitable replacement.
    Last edited by DLR 1973; August 23rd, 2012 at 04:42 AM.

  4. #24
    It turns out that at first, Ted Templeman, who also produced Montrose's first two records with Sammy Hagar, wanted to sign just Eddie Van Halen, not the rest of the band, and replace David Lee Roth with Sammy Hagar.

    But, just like Roth, who had stayed loyal to Van Halen in early 1975; Eddie remained loyal and insisted on keeping the Van Halen band together.

    This is all according to Kiss manager Bill Aucoin.



    So it would appear that Van Halen nearly recorded the first record with Sammy Hagar, while David Lee Roth nearly sang for Montrose.

    It is widely accepted that the David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar rock opera started in the summer of 1985; well all the evidence gathered here so far points to it starting over ten years earlier in 1974/5.

  5. #25
    Of course Ted Templeman was a very powerful man at Warner Brothers and he knew who he liked to work with.

    An example of this can be seen here at the 22nd Grammy Awards in 1979 where he picks up an award with the Doobie Brothers.

    Notice that he thanks Engineer Donn Landee, 'who we couldn't have done it without him'.


  6. #26
    Now confirming some of what Bill Aucoin said about Ted Templeman's conversation, is Alex Van Halen.

    Here Alex talks about working with the producer and how 'from there on Ted then takes over and helps with the arrangements...'


  7. #27
    Maybe a better example of Ted Templeman working with whom he chooses is this 1978 track for Nicollette Larson titled 'Cant Get Away From You'.

    On this track, Ted works with Michael Mcdonald, Eddie Van Halen and Donn Landee.



    Given Ted's power and influence at Warner Brothers at the time it's testament to Van Halen's resolve and belief in themselves as a band, that the first time we heard Eddie on vinyl was with Van Halen; rather than a newly formed group including Sammy Hagar and Michael McDonald.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DLR 1973 View Post
    And sticking to the hard facts involving the links in the 1970's between Van Halen and Montrose and between David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar.

    It is a fact that in the 1970's, covers band, Van Halen, played 'Dancin' Feet' by Montrose at the yard parties in Pasadena.

    More facts on the tumultuous year of 1975:

    Warner Brothers Presents... Montrose! is the third album by the band Montrose. It was released on the Warner Bros label in September 1975.

    It is the first Montrose album released after the departure of singer Sammy Hagar, the first Montrose album not produced by Ted Templeman, and the first Montrose album to feature a keyboardist as a full member of the band. Bob James, an unknown vocalist and songwriter from the South Bay area of Los Angeles who had been singing in a Montrose covers band, was chosen as Hagar's successor in early 1975. Another newcomer from Los Angeles, Jim Alcivar, joined the band on keyboards. At this juncture Ronnie Montrose parted ways with Ted Templeman and chose to self-produce the album.

    The second half of the disc continues to explore diverse sonic territory with rockers "Dancin' Feet" (performed at the time as a cover song by Van Halen)

    Band:

    Bob James: Lead Vocals
    Ronnie Montrose: Guitar
    Jim Alcivar: Keyboards
    Alan Fitzgerald: Bass
    Denny Carmassi: Drums


    Could easily have been:

    David Roth: Lead Vocals
    Ronnie Montrose: Guitar
    Jim Alcivar: Keyboards
    Alan Fitzgerald: Bass
    Denny Carmassi: Drums

    Quote Originally Posted by DLR 1973 View Post
    HARD FACTS AGAIN

    This time in the words of the late Ronnie Montrose himself in Zlozower’s book, titled ‘Eddie Van Halen.

    “The first tour I did with Van Halen, the bill was Journey, Ronnie Montrose, and Van Halen was opening. I was doing my instrumental music on that tour. Van Halen was a young, loud, and brash band, and I liked them. Eddie came up to me backstage at sound check and he called me Mr. Montrose. He shyly shook my hand and said, “Mr. Montrose, I’m Edward Van Halen, and I’m a big fan. We told Ted Templeman to get the Montrose sound when we did our record.” He also told me they used to play ‘Dancin’ Feet’ from one of the Montrose albums at their yard parties in Pasadena.

    “I really enjoyed Eddie’s playing. What made Eddie special was his youthful irreverence for the rules. That’s what impressed me. He’d developed his own style. I think Eddie started out on drums first, and there’s a very percussive nature about the way he plays. He plays very metered and percussive, and he’s very fluid in that style.”
    Where are you going with this? I'm not following it. So Eddie liked Montrose and covered one of his songs. Cool. What's the big mystery? Or am I missing something.

  9. #29
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    I've heard of these stories before, really interesting stuff. I can't see Sammy singing those tunes at all. He didn't like playing them in '86 or whatever, why would he like singing them in '77-'78? Ya know? I feel like he would have declined. I remember that Bill Aucoin story. It was some sort of irony that he didn't see them live like Gene or Ted had. He really lost there. Everyone knew Eddie was the hotshot, but I think no one understood that if he was going to do his solo career then he would say "Yeah, but with Al, Dave, and Wolfie- wait, I mean, Mike...who's Wolf??" Kidding. I'm guessing the producers could tell that the next big thing in rock was to have guitar "shredders". Yeah, there was Blackmore, Beck, Clapton, etc but think how it changed in the late seventies. We all know the history and how it went.


    Just to ask; what was the big thing to notice about Ted mentioning Donn? They had worked together for years, that's how most producers work or atleast did. I think it's a seperate ordeal nowadays.


    What's interesting is that most people know Eddie's solo work on "Beat it", but don't know about the Larson track. I think that's why the rest of the band set up a rule and kinda got miffed if anybody did that. I can see why though.
    http://imgur.com/Yij2gqN

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick AVH fan View Post
    I've heard of these stories before, really interesting stuff. I can't see Sammy singing those tunes at all. He didn't like playing them in '86 or whatever, why would he like singing them in '77-'78? Ya know? I feel like he would have declined. I remember that Bill Aucoin story. It was some sort of irony that he didn't see them live like Gene or Ted had. He really lost there. Everyone knew Eddie was the hotshot, but I think no one understood that if he was going to do his solo career then he would say "Yeah, but with Al, Dave, and Wolfie- wait, I mean, Mike...who's Wolf??" Kidding. I'm guessing the producers could tell that the next big thing in rock was to have guitar "shredders". Yeah, there was Blackmore, Beck, Clapton, etc but think how it changed in the late seventies. We all know the history and how it went.


    Just to ask; what was the big thing to notice about Ted mentioning Donn? They had worked together for years, that's how most producers work or atleast did. I think it's a seperate ordeal nowadays.


    What's interesting is that most people know Eddie's solo work on "Beat it", but don't know about the Larson track. I think that's why the rest of the band set up a rule and kinda got miffed if anybody did that. I can see why though.
    It was also rumored that Bill Aucoin put his feet up on the desk, smirked at the band, and said:
    Come see me in thirty years, when there's a third Van Halen on bass...

 

 

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