2012 US Presidential Election Thread

[Dr. Roth]

155 pages. Congratulations Dan on making the longest thread in CVH.com's history and not one single boob in the lot. Unless you count the politicians and some of the commentariat

[EVH_Erupted]

LOVE THIS.

I know this wasn't exactly your point but:
Seriously. People need to study more history. Politicians are (pretty much) inherently corrupt. Many presidents have done immoral things. Generally though, the good things they did outweigh the little immoralities. Who cares that Clinton got laid in the oval office. JFK did too. Plenty of others too. Its not a big deal.

And he wasn't impeached for having sex. He was impeached for lying under oath about having sex.

Also, we need to stop thinking we're exceptional, and that normal rules don't apply to us. We've done a lot of great things, but in the end we can fail just as hard as any other nation. Monetary and budgeting rules apply just as much to us as everyone else. Ditto all the other common sense rules. For example: people keep bringing up the debt and deficit. Why are we so far in? Because we thought we could cut taxes AND go to war at the same time. Lets put this in simple terms: we thought we could increase our expenditures, but take a decent pay cut. Illogical. Trickle down has failed repeatedly.

The media didn't give two shits about the sex life of presidents before the 90s or so. A reporter wanted to make a story on JFK's mistress, but the editor dismissed it because it didn't have anything to do with what they wanted to portray. The media never displayed FDR's case of polio, instead they nearly hid the obvious. Nowadays, you'll hear about what the Pres feeds the dog.

Agreed about the economic problems, unfortunately neither Romney or Obama would fix such things. Romney would increase spending and Obama would do the same as he was doing before. The only candidate on the ballot that even wanted to cut down the budget -and I'm going to sound like a broken record- was Johnson.

[EVH_Erupted]

I'm not a hard core conservative, and I'm socially liberal.
I'm an atheist, who is pro - choice, and supports the rights of those who want same sex marriages.
But "we" just re-elected the worst President since Jimmy Carter.

The country is in the dump.
Did Obama inherit Bushs problems? Certainly.

Has he been stymied by the Republicans who just wanted to make him look bad and get him out of there? Of course.

But:

Is Obama the right man for the job? No.

Was he qualified and up to the task his first term? No.

Has his first term been a bust? Yes.

Would Romneys experience as a businessman put him in a better position to get things sorted out than Obama?
Most certainly.

Does he (Obama) have extreme left wing socialistic tendencies, as evidenced by his policies and his tenure with Rev. Wright? Absolutely.

Was Obama voted in mostly by young people, minorites, and woman? Yes.

Are young people, minorities, and woman fiscally responsible, experienced, and do they show good judgement?
Not many of them.

But, the above group is becoming the larger voting block - and they like Santa Claus for a President.
Therefore, this is the kind of President that they are going to vote for.

I think we usually see a lot of things eye to eye, so I'm not entirely disagreeing with you here. But what drives me nuts from the Romney supporters was that Romney had a business credibility. Okay, he had a successful business. That's great but... the country isn't a corporation, it's a nation of people. It's a completely animal. Romney wasn't any better of a choice, to me at least.

[Incomudro]

Yes, I think that Obamas rockstar image is still what is carrying him.

No, I don't think that the votes of older more mature white males should carry more wieght - that's not the way the process is meant to work.
But...
In my experience I don't think that the young make good choices. Granted this a gross generalization but - well, there are some things that come with experience.
There are exceptions of course, but I think that the majority of the black and latino voting population will always vote Democratic.
They will also almost always vote for a candidate that is pereived as "one of there own."
That's just the way it is.
Woman.
Once again, I'm making a sweaping generality here but I'll say that they as a whole are going to be swayed more on the social issues and when it comes to those - the Dems win.

[Incomudro]

I think we usually see a lot of things eye to eye, so I'm not entirely disagreeing with you here. But what drives me nuts from the Romney supporters was that Romney had a business credibility. Okay, he had a successful business. That's great but... the country isn't a corporation, it's a nation of people. It's a completely animal. Romney wasn't any better of a choice, to me at least.

I hear you, but for me - this is what it came down to.
I'm well aware that the right don't prove to be anymore fiscally responsible than the left.
I'd vote Libertarian, but I don't fit into their Government is 100% hands off everything format either.
I wish I did, but I can't.

[unchainedguitars]

ROCKSTAR!

I think Katy Perry's dress swayed all those undecided voters...

[spanishfly]

The media didn't give two shits about the sex life of presidents before the 90s or so. A reporter wanted to make a story on JFK's mistress, but the editor dismissed it because it didn't have anything to do with what they wanted to portray. The media never displayed FDR's case of polio, instead they nearly hid the obvious. Nowadays, you'll hear about what the Pres feeds the dog.

Yeah. I get that. I think it's terribly stupid. It is really unimportant. Affairs are not that big a deal. Even polio, or JFK's various diseases, or even Reagan's early signs of Alzheimer's, as long as they don't particularly effect decision making they really don't matter.

Agreed about the economic problems, unfortunately neither Romney or Obama would fix such things. Romney would increase spending and Obama would do the same as he was doing before. The only candidate on the ballot that even wanted to cut down the budget -and I'm going to sound like a broken record- was Johnson.

A lot of things need to be done. Cuts are definitely needed, as we've both mentioned repeatedly. They just need to be made intelligently. I still think higher taxes are necessary. Not greatly higher, but somewhat. Will it suck a bit? Yes. But seriously, I'd prefer to pay more and have good schools and solid infrastructure, than pay less and and have just reactive maintenance and a declining school system.

A lot of things need to change. it won't happen in 4 years. nor 8. nor probably even 12. But there are many things that we need to begin taking care of.

[EVH_Erupted]

I hear you, but for me - this is what it came down to.
I'm well aware that the right don't prove to be anymore fiscally responsible than the left.
I'd vote Libertarian, but I don't fit into their Government is 100% hands off everything format either.
I wish I did, but I can't.

I can see your skepticism. Sometimes my pragmatic side takes over and thinks sometimes the Big Boys need to step in. However, Libertarianism is a broad spectrum, and having 100% hands off is something that aligns with anarchy or sometimes minarchy. Not all L-tarians think that the govt' should step away from everything. I think there should be some ruling, but not to the scale of where it is today. I'm personally an independent, but I tend to agree with a lot (not all) of L-tarian ideologies. It's essentially the best of both worlds, concerning the D and R parties. It's socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

[EVH_Erupted]

A lot of things need to be done. Cuts are definitely needed, as we've both mentioned repeatedly. They just need to be made intelligently. I still think higher taxes are necessary. Not greatly higher, but somewhat. Will it suck a bit? Yes. But seriously, I'd prefer to pay more and have good schools and solid infrastructure, than pay less and and have just reactive maintenance and a declining school system.

A lot of things need to change. it won't happen in 4 years. nor 8. nor probably even 12. But there are many things that we need to begin taking care of.

I'm not sure about the higher taxes, but I do think something about that needs to change. I've been reading up on the Fair Tax and it seems to make sense to my nonmathmatical brain.

Well, I don't think dumping more money into the system will bring about good schools, that's what we've been doing for the last 8+ years and it hasn't worked. I think the problem is that the Feds have way too much say in terms of education. It needs to be given back to the states. It actually costs the states money to receive federal money, so I think dumping more money into that is counterproductive. Where to go from there is beyond me though.

[Ice Cream Man]

Take a taste of the kind of bullshit being posted on my Facebook page today. I've got such an extreme urge to rip this silly video a huge asshole, but...you don't wanna alienate your friends for their silly-assed beliefs, right?

SUMMARY: If we all attend a good church, the Democrats can't win.